Johnny Depp v Amber Heard – Day 6 (Part 1): Depp returns to the stand in libel trial

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Watch at: 00:00 / 00:00:20Watch at: 00:20 / 00:40all right are there any preliminary matters no your honor two days in a good row great all right mr steph you can take your place on the stand please all right you're ready for the jury okay uh all right good morning ladies and gentlemen all right you can have a seat and so just a reminder that you're still under oath mr deb okay all right yes thank you thank you all right good morning mr depp good morning yesterday you told us a little bit about the beginning of your relationship with miss heard when did miss herd's behavior towards you begin to change um i believe as i said yesterday there was a hint of something with the um having to do with the boots coming off and breaking routine um it her her attitude or her um the way that she would um begin to uh speak to me um i think things first thing started coming up and it was i was suddenly just wrong about everything um if uh i made a statement about something that i had been familiar with for example in in my work that i've that i've been chopping away at for a good 30 something years um i was suddenly wrong and um then beyond that if you try to um explain yourself and correct um the the problem the misunderstanding it would then begin to heighten um as ms herb was unable to be wrong it just didn't happen she couldn't be wrong um so these little digs um and uh they would would commence with sort of demeaning name-calling uh uh berated sort of to be made a fool of um and those would escalate into a full-scale argument and in the beginning as one does one sticks up for oneself in a in a debate as it were or an argument over something to try to prove the point but when it escalates and then it's hard to explain but the the argument would start here and then it would roll around and become this circular thing of its own so you get back to the beginning essentially of the argument now it's heightened even more but it's still circular and there's no way in or out if if if there's a dialogue between two people um both people need to speak but there was no there was no way to fit a word in it was uh it was a sort of a rapid fire sort of endless parade of insults and uh you know looking at me like i was a fool and i i just couldn't i was i was i was having difficulty in my mind of course and in my heart dealing uh with that sort of um barrage um and part part of that is i i just i was confused as to the fact that whatever her age was at the time of these various arguments she was mid-20s to late 20s and into 30s um i couldn't i couldn't understand how i had somehow somehow gotten arrived at where i'd arrived from where i came from in the beginning of my life and worked for 30 plus years um doing these things it was astounding how wrong i was about everything that i've experienced um within the movie and within the film industry or within it well in just life itself no i i i was sort of not allowed to be right not allowed to have a voice so at a certain point when that when what enters your mind is you start to slowly realize that you are in a relationship with your mother in a sense and i know that that sounds perverse and uh obtuse but but the the fact is that some people search for weaknesses in people and that is to say sensitivities and when you've told that person your life and what you've lived through and what you've been through just as happens in relationships um the more that became ammunition from his hurt to um to either verbally uh decimate me or or to send me into a kind of tailspin of confusion and depression and um well it's it's it's not a happy day it's not a happy week it's not a happy month when you're constantly being told how wrong you are about this or that what an idiot you are um or or anything it just it then it then it increased increasing it became an endless um it became an endless that endless circle like so as it escalated and continued to escalate i went straight to what i had learned as a youth which was to remove myself from the situation so that it couldn't continue because there's only so much your ears can hear and never forget so i would remove myself from the situation as i've done as a youth as much as possible um because i i i just certainly didn't believe that there was any need for these various subjects or arguments to come up and and travel the distance that they did so very quickly to ramp up so fast um it was like you were pinned to a wall and had to just listen to it and take it um so i found the only way to find any sort of piece was to uh try to walk away if if she didn't allow me to walk away um there were times when um i would i would just go and lock myself in you know the bathroom or anywhere that she couldn't get into and that that happened constantly over the years what would happen when the fights would escalate other than going and hiding in the bathroom i'm sorry what would happen well if if if they continue to escalate um if i continue to to try to um present my my version of my side of the story um when you when you when you're approached in in a um in a kind of um well when you were approached with such uh anger and hatred it seemed like pure hatred for me um if i stayed to argue that eventually i was sure that it was going to escalate into violence and oftentimes it did at times it did and when you say violence what are you referring to specifically um misheard in her frustration and in her rage and her anger she would strike out she would it could begin with a slap it could begin with a shove it could begin with you know throwing a tv remote at my head it could be throwing a glass of wine in my face but all in all it was it was just a it was a constant it was there was a built-in list of of um as i said my personal experiences which i gave to miss heard those those things were those those those facts were used against me um as as weapons um especially when it you know when it came to my kids um so yeah i i did there was no need for it it just there was no need for it too many lines were crossed you could it was you couldn't see the lines anymore you mentioned that uh miss heard would use information you gave her against you like a weapon can you explain that a little bit um i mean i have said this before in various interviews but certainly in life um my if i have one ambition and ambition for me um when you equate it with hollywood has become a very has become an ugly word in a sense because ambition ambition means i want to be famous at any cost i don't care what for i just want to be famous that's one thing that's one uh part of it if you have hunger or a need or a drive to to present your work um that that to me is is uh the the way to go about it fame has nothing to do with it so i was more i mean basically the only the only ambition that i've ever had in my life came arrived the second that my first child arrived and in the second in the instant which was to be a good parent to be to be a great father to be the best father i could and um there were several occasions where miss hurd would um would tell me what a bad father i was um and that i had no idea how to parent um and again it falls into the same categories before i couldn't understand how in 52 years or however old i was at the time how i could be so wrong about everything i i i mean i one learns along the road the result is the result of the road is not important it's it's the road that's important because we don't know exactly what any what's going to happen in 10 years we don't know so the road is what i pay attention to and paying attention to trying to spend as much time with my children as possible even that even that would uh that could send miss hurt into a monumental tailspin um where i could i could hardly ever go and see my kids and spend time with my kids because she had to have me there at all times for her own needs and i i that was something that once you realize that that's happening and then there are hassles between the children and her the situation starts to get a little more grim and a little more dire and that i was not prepared to take i would not hear the words you're a bad father you're a terrible father you're awful father so one can only take so much of that before bits of your brain start to just bits of your brain bits of your heart begin to the valve gets shut off because you can't hear it anymore and and you know that it's not true and you know that it's meant as a web it's just to it's to slice you up it's to bring you down it's to demean you it's to bring you into a place where you start to believe that there's something wrong with you and there's plenty wrong with me there's plenty wrong with a lot of people but in all of these situations my main goal was to retreat because i think in life most important is pick your battles if there's a battle to be fought that it's grave and important then that must be dealt with but small insults and kind of teenage of high school tactics um this bullying if you will was um becoming too much to take so why did you stay with ms heard given this type of behavior that's a very complicated answer i would i can only say that i stayed through all that i'm sure that it's somehow related to my father remaining stoic as my mother would beat him to death i'm sure it'll have a lot to do with having been in a beautiful wonderful 14 15-year relationship with vanessa the mother of my children raising those kids was there there was i have no interest in being a uh you know the words that they use that i i dislike very much um a celebrity or an entertainer or fame is a strange word because i could never equate it with my self i pumped gas i worked construction i i uh printed t-shirts i dug in you know i had many many jobs before any of this happened to me so i've been able to live both sides of that life of of of of life i i know the the very lows and i know the very highs of um of where my life has gone and i it's not i don't i don't again it would be pure idiocy for me to sit up here uh as a as an actor who has been very very fortunate uh over the years and i can only say it's it's luck in the sense that someone hands you the ball in the beginning and you run with it and you run as far as you can before you get tackled so i that's that's what i've always done but what happens is the word when the word celebrity or or uh you when you are a what do they call it a public public figure that's what it is a celebrity or a public figure um again not complaining but there are things that that are very uncomfortable and that is to say that at that point anybody can say anything they want to about you and that's happened to me over 36 years or more that uh things can be printed in the newspaper that are utterly false this is even early on so this is where that that privilege i suppose that they call the privilege of celebrity that's that's where that um sticks a knife in you um because it's one of those uh that's one of those situations where your arms are too short to box with god you know there are too many of them coming at you um so that yes i don't i don't know what her motivations were if they were if there was some species of jealousy or there was some species of maybe just maybe just hatred i don't know um but in any case the elevation and the escalation of these of these day-to-day arguments were um simply unnecessary it was it was not to help the relationship it did not help the relationship it wasn't meant to help the relationship it was meant to feed her [Music] need for conflict she has a need for conflict which is a need for violence it erupts out of nowhere and uh what i learned the only thing i learned to do with it is exactly what i did as a child retreat just take a step back which i told her we need to remove ourselves from each other even for an hour a day anything because this this can't go on no one can live like this you know but why did i stay i stayed i suppose because my father stayed i suppose because i had been in that relationship with vanessa and that was lost and i didn't i didn't want to i didn't want to fail i wanted to try to make it work i thought maybe i could help her i thought maybe i could bring her around because the amber heard that i knew for the first year year and a half was not this was not this um suddenly this opponent it wasn't my girl it was it was she had become my opponent and everything that i did just didn't fit her um it wasn't she didn't accept it so i stayed because of course i didn't want to fail i didn't want i didn't want to hurt anyone especially misheard i didn't want to break her heart i i remember very well that when my father left and my mother um betty sue had that first attempted suicide that i woke up to and that visual in my head and that was a direct result of my father's leaving ms hurt had spoken of suicide on a couple of occasions so that also becomes a factor that's that's also something that that always lives in the back of your brain and uh you that you fear because when i would leave sometimes i mean well many times when i would try to leave she would you know stop me at the elevator with the security guards crying screaming you know i can't live without you i'm gonna you know i'm gonna die but you had to get out there there were even a couple of times when i did escape and i got to my house arrived at my house in sweets here and then five minutes later she would arrive in the i don't know what car she was driving at the time but um she would arrive in her nightgown screaming in the parking lot in front of in front of my house uh screaming to high heavens it'd be four in the morning three in the morning it was ludicrous i it was it was uh it was out of control it was uncontrollable did there come a time when you and miss heard started recording your um arguments yes in fact it was it was uh i was i was the first uh person of the two of us to to uh record conversations and it was for this reason she would she would we would have been talking the night before or arguing the night before and she would say something there would be these again these these demeaning berating insults there would be these these these jabs there would be anything to make me feel small and uh and like nothing so what i thought was i'm going to record the conversation and i told her this i'm gonna record i'm gonna get my phone and i'm gonna record our conversation because i want you to hear what you've said to me tomorrow so you because she would deny having said those things what are you talking about you know it was it was surreal she had completely denied things she said directly to my face in a heated and volatile way and she denied it so i went to and i said i'm going to record us and i did and we recorded the conversation which when she was on tape to the first time it wouldn't it escalated a bit but she was well it was clear that she was performing for the tape because it was being recorded so that was uh another clue that something was slightly rotten in the state of denmark as it were what did miss heard say to you about you recording the the conversations between you and her i mean initially she said sure go ahead did that ever change no then she she um then she started recording but um surreptitious um without without saying without telling me that she was recording something which is fine but not so fine if you if you know what i mean um even in those tapes i don't i don't there's it never took me to a place where i would um go switch into some other entity which is as she has used the term monster never switched to violence violence is unnecessary um why would you hit someone to make them agree with you i don't think it works mr depp you mentioned the term monster and i think we heard about that in the opening statements what what does the term monster mean to you well the the term monster means to me you know in the beginning she had used a different word to explain the same thing and she she would use the word demon demons that my demons were coming out that she had noticed that there was a great change in my attitude or my um uh aggressiveness aggressive nature or she would would um say that the demons had come out and they'd control me and that sort of thing i don't remember exactly how monster came out but that word stuck and it stayed well until this day what i believe the monster was in ms heard's mind was her intense intense um his belief about what monster meant in miss herd's mind it's not relevant there's no foundation let me ask a different question the objection go ahead when you use the term monster what were you referring to in your conversations with miss hurt when i used the term monster with miss heard i was placating if if she had referred to [Music] me as being a monster there was no way that i was going to sit there and go through a 45 minute argument about you know you're a monster no i'm not you're a monster no i'm not you're a monster i'm not it it was it was an impossibility so what do you do you accept her vernacular you accept what the word that she uses and then you use that word to to placate her so that it would at least calm part of the part of the aggression it would it would lessen the attacks you know so explaining the monster was for me um [Music] i mean she she she had told me many times that the monster was only me when i was using drugs and and alcohol but it even when i was stone cold sober off of alcohol and substances aside from my meds the term the monster was still there when she accused be accused me of being high on cocaine or um you know drinking like a you know some sort of um like drinking like like like i was a you know some kind of 19th century sailor it's uh that that that was the word she clung to to describe but um it was in her mind not mine how did your relationship with misheard affect your substance use [Music] well for example when we were on the road you know when you're traveling from uh if you're on a press tour or if you're making a film and you're staying in hotels or this or that um i would always have to get different where we would always have to book an extra room that i was able to escape to so i didn't have to lock myself in another bathroom um it breaks you down it the constant haranguing breaks you down and you know there's a part of you that says listen if i'm going to be accused of this might as well just do it but it never exceeded it never my substance abuse or use the alcohol that i used or drank uh was again purely it's it's that little boy who didn't want to hear or didn't want to feel the pain of his mother turning him into some kind of ball of insecurity and pain so yes i was more inspired by miss heard to reach out for a numbing agent um because of the because of the constant uh clashes because of the there wasn't there were i mean maybe a few days here and there but there wasn't a day that you'd wake up and you'd expect something was going to hit the fan and pretty much like clockwork it did so yes i i had to have something to distance me and distance my my heart from those verbal attacks i i had to have something to to be able to maintain me and i'm afraid for a while because of because of placation because i didn't want to rock the boat as it were again you pick your battles so placation seemed um the best route if i was unable to escape her clutches how if at all did miss herds try to support you in abstaining from the drugs and alcohol as she requested well i mean verbally uh and she had been quite clear verbally as as and then been pretty bullish and brutish about wanting me to telling me that i needed to stop drinking but drinking was basically drinking wine with her um and i i for some i suppose maybe from youth i don't know but i i've always had um a pretty high tolerance for alcohol for especially it's not spirits you know um i i had a pretty good tolerance for alcohol substances and things of that nature but there was no i had no i've worked with i've worked with therapists drug counselors who have actually said the words to me because i wanted to know i wanted to know am i am i an alcoholic am i an alcoholic or is this just the same thing that i did as a kid when i took my mom's nerve pill um do i have a drinking problem and it essentially came down to this do you have a drinking problem johnny objection calls for hearsay what the doctors told him i'm not sure he's saying what the doctors told him i think that's what's about to be testified too oh if you can if you can make that clear i guess um let me ask you a different question mr deb um let's let him object to another one um how often would miss her drink in your presence while you were in a relationship always well yeah uh ms heard drank she took a shine to a very nice spanish wine called vega cecilia she and all her friends did um and um yeah the wine would would come out and miss her could very easily drink two bottles of wine per night well not a not a problem what i found strange was when i did um did get sober from from the well i was off the um the opiates that i had that i had been addicted to prior prior to a year or so before a couple years before um she asked me if i would stop drinking to save the relationship of course i stopped drinking and i always found it odd that in support of me not drinking that she might stop drinking but she did not she continued and i i didn't make a big deal about it in fact i would open her i would open her wine i would pour her a glass and that went on for many many months you know in my sobriety uh like i said i think i was sober for around 18 months then there was a time when i was asked to and i've been off off of alcohol out and off of drugs everything except for the medication um that i'm prescribed [Music] i had to go to london to give a lifetime achievement award to a dear old friend who was an elderly man a great actor called his name's christopher lee and he was a dear friend and i was surprised he was being surprised by my showing up on stage i just flown in from the states and he was surprised by me arriving to give him this award and christopher um came up and accepted the award and we walked they brought us backstage to a beautiful library where we i was with christopher and his wife and a waiter came up and had three glasses of champagne and christopher handed one to his wife he handed one to me and then he had the other and there was a photographer there and the glass came up to toast and i and i just in my head i thought it's just champagne you know a little bit tink to toast christopher in his lifetime achievement award and so i've had half a glass of champagne with christopher lee and his wife um after that immediately after that award ceremony um i went to pick up misheard and take her to dinner at a restaurant and i told her that i'd had a half a glass of champagne with christopher and i thought listen it's it's not like you know you're sitting in a pub guzzling pints of snake bites or guinness or doing shots of jagermeister or it wasn't even at that point it wasn't even for need to bury feelings or emotions it was literally a joyous occasion for christopher and i said to her i i i enjoyed it you know it gave me the opportunity to enjoy the the actual champagne the the the drink and the and my appreciation for wine and wine making and i've been fascinated with for years and years and i saw nothing wrong in it and i said i'd like to have a glass of champagne as she was sitting there with a glass of wine and she we were in the restaurant and she absolutely lost it and got up and stormed to the ladies room and i told my security and driver i said uh i think we have to go i'm gonna have to leave so we left the restaurant and uh went home and the mere suggestion of me sipping a glass of champagne or having one glass or two glasses of wine she she went apoplectic she she she it was uh i was weak uh uh i was a complete mess i was an alcoholic i was you know i was gonna ruin everything my you know your kids your kids are not proud of you they they can't stand what you're doing to yourself so at that point i said to her okay listen how about this you wanna you want to support me not drinking i've never asked you this before how about you stop drinking how about you get sobriety and share this sobriety with me to support me and help me through this what did she say to that no no she said no she said she didn't have a problem but i i've never had a physical addiction to alcohol i don't how often have you seen ms heard use other illicit drugs in your presence several uh several times and what drugs were those um well she was always quite fond of mdma which is which is ecstasy um and uh mushrooms um and she had some medications that she she she was on already that were well one in particular is quite a high velocity um speed if you will called i don't know if i can say the name am i allowed to say the name it doesn't matter that's not necessary um what um how often did you see miss heard take mdma well a dozen times 20 times i you know over the course of the year during the course of the years what about um mushrooms um mushrooms a little less mushrooms probably six seven times mr depp do you recall at the beginning of her opening uh miss heard's counsel mentioned that the first time you supposedly struck miss hurd was in response to a comment about one of your tattoos yes i remember and what is your response to that oh it it didn't it didn't happen i i've never struck miss hurt as i said yesterday i've never struck mister um i have never struck a woman in my life um i'm certainly not going to strike a woman if she decides to make fun of a tattoo that i have on my body that's like going into someone's journal and picking out uh things you don't like she had made mention there was no incident of of of argument when she when the tattoo thing has been been brought up many many times and there's really nothing i can do my i've always thought of my body as a as a journal if you will to to to mark experiences to mark life experiences you know for example when you're when my first child was born i i had her name tattooed um on my over my heart which is where her little head used to be when i rock her to sleep um i i marked my boy's birth by uh tattooing myself for him so um no one can go back or no one should go back and rewrite their journals why would i take such great offense to someone making fun of a tattoo on my body it uh that that that that allegation never made any sense to me whatsoever are there any tattoos that you had that misheard had an issue with to your understanding um well the um what a tattoo [Music] that i believe is up here which used to say uh winona forever who was a former girlfriend and um we'd been together for a few years um we're not a writer and uh when we when when we broke up um how do you fix that i did go back and re rewrite my journal to some degree i i took off the last two letters um and had it say wino forever um just because i thought it was uh i thought it was again through pain comes hum you humor has to come in there so at some point into the pain and that's how you play it out in your mind so i i have i think sometimes abstractly in that sense so i changed it to wino forever um any other tattoos um um well she was she was very encouraging um in in in me getting a tattoo of of her or her name or whatever and uh i waited a while and then i yes i did it i got a full tattoo of her and it uh ironically wasn't long after that that the um that everything started going sideways i i was doing anything i could to bring a smile to her face as opposed to the frown and then the onslaught of whatever um whatever problems she she she was seeing or experiencing um i i i i would try to wake her up with laughter um you know singing stupid songs in her ear while she i i generally just tried to keep bringing her mood up sometimes it worked many times it didn't um but i i tried and i wanted to try because as i said i didn't want to fail and at the time not knowing fully not understanding fully what i was if you'll excuse the term up against um i kept trying i i kept trying but uh to no avail whatsoever okay it just got worse mr depp i'd like to fast forward a little bit to may of 2014. could you please tell the jury what project you were working on in may of 2014 may of 2014. may of 2014 i i'm i'm there there were a number of films that i made in succession i i can't remember if that might have been pirates no i can't uh mordecai or um i don't remember what can you remind me what may have 2014 film was were you filming black mass in boston yes excuse me yes yes yes oh yes i was uh i was filming black a film called black mass in in boston and mr did come with me and i had for the film i had to there was there were very early calls to work because i was i had a number of prosthetics blew to my face and uh blue contacts um so so that i could resemble the the actual it was based on the true story of james bulger james whitey bulger and so i had a i had to go in quite early to get the prosthetics glued to my face and all that and uh work then you'd work you know the whole day and then at the end of the night uh the uh they would remove the the prosthetics which takes it if it took three hours to put them on it took about an hour to take them off you know so on top of a what could be a anywhere between a 14 16 17 hour day of work you know what with the application of the of the makeup and then the taking off of the um applications was miss heard staying with you in boston during the entire time that you were making that film yes yes she was and who from your staff was in boston with you during that time jerry judge keenan wyatt stephen deuters nathan holmes i believe um and i believe malcolm connolly was there as well so i would have um assistance sound technician um security i believe i believe that was it mr depp we heard yesterday from mr wyatt about a flight that you and mr wyatt and miss heard were on from boston to la in march excuse me may 2014 do you remember that yes and could you please tell the jury what you remember about that specific flight um i remember as i was still shooting filming black mass before i did black mass the film my sister christy and i were talking about the um the roxy codons that i had been again you know that was the monkey on my back uh that she came to me she told me she'd read this book of dr kipper's book and uh i read uh dr kipper's book a good majority of it and um i agreed that i would uh do the detox i would kick the uh the opiates was no time to do it before the film um so when when the nurse which was nurse debbie lloyd when she came to boston um she she had asked me uh what is your dosage what are you how many of these are you taking per day and you know someone who had been under uh you know under the kind of lock and key of of of a prescription drug that is highly highly addictive i mean with built-in barbs that this drug does not want you to stop taking it um she asked me hi how many i took per day or my dosage and of course as as as any uh person who is addicted and um essentially a uh a fool to the drug and you know how important it is because you have felt the sting when it doesn't when you don't have it so i'd agreed a degree to the detox and i'd she asked me how many i took i told her obviously more than i was taking purely because when you're in that frame of mind the one thing that you do not want to a situation you don't want to find yourself in is having no access to the thing that will make you not high it will make you it gets you you only get better from it if you start to get the the the the shakes and the tremors and the uh the you know you could feel this traveling into your system your your your receptors are out in mass and your receptors are demanding that drug if you if you don't give the drug to the risk to the receptors you're gonna you will start going into a pretty nasty withdrawal and um and it could uh which you know could uh and has ended in you know sort of seizures you could you can go into pretty nasty seizures so i had told debbie lloyd more than was necessary so that i could always have one or two in my pocket only just in case so i didn't find myself you know on a plane or anywhere without one in my pocket to stop the the inevitable uh body cramps and nausea and and and stomach cramps and seizure of the bones and shaking and and also the it's quite an emotional ride as well so yes i i uh before the flight amber and her assistant savannah mcmillan wanted to be picked up in new york and then have the plane fly to boston to pick me up to bring us back to los angeles uh we had spoken the night before we had argued the night before um [Music] she was most definitely looking for a she was looking for a fight actively searching for a way to instigate a fight with me um and i had taken two of these um opiates these oxycodones um and i can i can tell you now some of you may be very very well aware of this opiates um are extreme downers so if you have enough opiates in you you will essentially go on what's called the nod you'll just drop into sleep so i've heard i've heard the words blackout used and [Music] there's a grave difference between a blackout um from from from um alcohol abuse because that is a person who has has has ingested enough alcohol to render them um they can still behave and they can still stand and talk and scream and yell and cry and do whatever they do and never remember a thing and generally they're always embarrassed by it a blackout is a very very different animal to um the opiate taking you into dreamland so when i arrived on the plane uh i was not feeling any pain and i knew that she was ready for a some kind of brawl and i uh i sat on the plane drawing i was drawing in my notebook um she would verbally heckle hassle accuse poke prod physically you know poke and prod psychologically emotionally it just and and and finally you know as was my uh the one thing i learned if you're gonna hide someplace from somebody go straight into the bathroom so i walked back into the back of the plane um i grabbed a pillow and i went into the bathroom locked the door and laid down on the bathroom floor and went to sleep and that's where i remain for the rest of the flight how much if any alcohol had you had before you got on the flight i i honestly don't recall having any alcohol i mean maybe there was the sort of glass of champagne when you got on on the plane or something like that the initial thing you know people order glasses of wine people also tend to to have a few drinks before a plane takes off because some people don't like the turbulence and this and that so it's a little bit of a liquid courage you know um but i i i certainly after after ingesting two of the reoxycodones alcohol was not necessary so i i i i can tell you now that i was not drinking to excess certainly not and if i had i've probably been in the bathroom hugging porcelain as opposed to sleeping on a pillow who else was on that flight that you can recall um i remember jerry judge was on the flight savannah was on the flight ms heard kenan wyatt stephen duders i believe that's it what do you recall happening after you arrived back in l.a go back to the same home together after that flight uh no i don't believe no we didn't i don't believe we did i think she had decided if this is the time pretty sure i believe she had decided to check herself into the chateau marmont if the there are so many of these it's hard it's hard to sort of keep them all straight who would have paid for ms hurd to stay at the chateau marmont um i would have paid for it um if she wanted to go to the chateau marmont i wasn't going to let her pay for it no matter the circumstances i wasn't going to let her pay for it because i knew that my get expensive for for her so generally i uh i would do i would take care of things of nature and why did miss heard tell you why she was staying at the chateau marma no well i mean she was she was clearly upset and she was irate and i can't say that it was a bad idea for her to stay at the chateau marma at that time i don't know why she went to the chateau since she still had her apartment on orange i believe and the penthouse because i i could have gone to sweet sir but she went to the chat tomorrow mr duff do you recall why you were flying from boston to la in may 2014. [Music] i can't remember if it was a break from the film or if i had finished the film and that was before we went um well before i was supposed to go to the island to uh to um to detox from from the opiates i i think it's everyone's about to switch gears so this is a good time for a break all right ladies and we'll go ahead and have our morning recess please do not do any outside research and don't talk to anybody about the case and we'll see in 15 minutes okay thank you so all right answer again since you're still on the stand and not discuss your testimony with anybody including your attorneys okay all right we'll come back at 11 35 all right ready for the jury okay so all right thank you seated thank you all right your next question thank you mr dub who's dr kipper dr kipper is a um uh he's he's been my doctor since ever since i'd uh met him in i believe it was that may of 2014 around around there in uh in boston and why were you connected with dr kipper um my sister christy uh knew of course that i had had been addicted to the to the the opiates and she was concerned and she brought me his book and talked to me heart to heart and asked me if i would be willing to go through the the details and what was your answer yes of course and you mentioned um debbie lloyd can you please explain to the jury who she is debbie debbie lloyd is a is a nurse um who my doctor dr kipper had assigned to uh to my case to to be the um to oversee the detox and deliver the meds the medications to me that would help with my uh with the the uh the effects of withdrawal that uh that one goes through the uh to to essentially try and knock you out so that you don't go through the the nastiness of the affair did miss did miss lloyd stay on after the detox process as your nurse yes you did and when you were under dr kipper's care how often did you see miss lloyd um on location every day um yes on location every day um even when after um a year or two i would i was still seeing her at least on a bi-weekly basis from two to three times a week when did you start the detox process that you mentioned i know i know that it's it i believe it was around it was in august july or august of uh 2000 15 14 i cannot remember the year 14 i guess and where where did you do this detox process um the detox process uh um happened on i have a place in the bahamas um i'm never comfortable saying this but it's an island it's a very strange thing to say um but i thought that that would be the best place the most private um place where there were no worries of paparazzi or any of that so it was it was a place where i could literally be the only place where i can have actual uh anonymity so i thought that would be the best place to to do it who came with you down to the island for the detox um debbie nurse debbie lloyd traveled with me on the plane um ms heard and i i believe i believe that was i believe that was it um on the plane to to go to the island for the detox i was not bringing security i was not bringing assistance in in fact initially my sister christy was was going to uh go there um to help ms lloyd and the doctor through the detox which made perfect sense since that the whole thing had been born out of her desire for me to get clean um so initially it was supposed to be christy coming um in place of misheard i there was a there was a great part of me that was uh very uncomfortable with ms heard coming along for that detox because as as things could fluctuate very rapidly in our relationship um i was i was wary that that those things would come up during what needed to be a very straight detoxification of of of these substances and i was well aware that it was not going to be pleasant i i was well aware that that i was going to go through quite a bit of physical changes physical um yes i i i i was i was afraid that it would be too much for her and i also felt that she might be too much for me at the time so then why did miss hurt come down to the island with you during the detox process um she insisted she switched places with uh christy could you please describe for the jury mr deb what it feels like to go through a detox from from opioids um i would say the best the best way to describe it is it it feels like you're you're it feels like the inside of you the very inside of you is trying to escape the body so it's um it becomes obviously very physical and so therefore you'll go into a withdrawal would would mean that you're you would go into you'd have immense cramps in your stomach your muscles would seize you my body would shake um the pain is like nothing i've ever experienced before um part of it was the the best way to explain it for example there was a situation that when we were on the island and i was going through the detox and it was hitting pretty hard at that point um and ms heard had made a deal with um nurse debbie and dr kipper to to stay at their end of the island and that she would administer the drugs to me it administered the medications that that i needed to not go into um the for lack of a better word the the these intense sharp painful heebie-jeebies and there was a moment when i could feel my body starting to tense and i could feel the withdrawals coming on and they come on quick and they're not they're not discreet um they go straight for the jugular i mean like i said when when your receptors are in full bloom and begging for the the the the substance the drug the the the opiates that they that my body had become used to the these receptors that were being fed by um there was a moment when uh it was it was coming on very fast and i i i i was sitting on the couch in in the little house that we all saw on the island miss heard was at the uh she was in the sort of kitchen area and she was chopping vegetables i remember and i i i think it was around 2 30 in the afternoon and the effects of the withdrawals were really coming on and i said to um i said to miss her uh i'm gonna need the meds now and she said uh she looked at the clock and she said it's not time and i said no no you don't you don't understand this is this is not about clocks and watches and things i'm going i'm going into the ship and it was visible and um i hate i hate to have i hate saying this and i hate to have to admit this but that was uh i believe that was about the lowest point in my life i was the lowest i'd ever felt as a as a human being because i had to say please please may i have the meds because it's really kicking in and she was adamant nope it's not time it's not time so in explaining how these these uh withdrawals start to take over your body when i was begging at that point for the meds i found that i had sort of rolled off the couch and i was sitting on the floor crying i mean tears streaming down my face begging another human being to please please give me the meds that will take this away and she would not she was adamant that nope it's not time four o'clock so the only thing that one can do in that situation is you have to trick the body you have to you have to manipulate your body out away from those well you have to trick the body to get away from the receptors so the only thing that one can do is you go straight to [Music] the shower and um you put it on scalding water and you stand underneath the scalding shower and essentially you're burning the top you know your skin is burning from the heat of the water and what that would do is it would trick the nervous the nerves away from the receptors because they had now they had an immediate problem that needed to be dealt with the nerves so they so what it does is the scalding shower would would reverse those nerve endings and they would go up to the top of the skin because there was a problem there so that's that's how you that's how i was able to bypass um those those withdrawal symptoms at times it doesn't fully take them away but but what it does is it tricks your body into into thinking that there's something going horribly wrong on top so it keeps them away from the receptors and after that i had a conversation with nurse debbie and with dr kipper and i said i don't believe i told them that she had denied me the meds when i was in need and then i told him that i don't think that this is going to work here anymore i think we have to leave the island and i need to be we she can't be with me while i'm going through the rest of this detoxification so i thought i told him we should leave the island i told i asked them if they if they understood what i was doing and they did so we went back to los angeles and then i asked miss hurt if she would please uh allow me five days seven days whatever it took to get out of to get done with finished with the rest of this this this this this horrific detox and the pain did miss her give you that time she did reluctantly yes i was i was immediately accused of throwing her i was accused of abandoning her i was accused of not appreciating all that she had done to get me to this point where i was which was kind of an interesting argument for me uh i begged her please can i can i get a place at the beverly hills hotel i'll get you and your friends at bungalow at the beverly hills hotel where you can all stay together and have a grand old flag you can have fun you can do whatever you want and you don't have to sit around mr uh shaky and she wasn't happy about it but i it was very necessary so i she did eventually um leave for about five five days or so and i sat in a uh after a few days i sat in a a a metal chair with one song on the uh one song on a loop that i could focus on the lyrics and the the power of the song um to help me get through it and uh even even once this the in the deep the the uh effects you know started to go away that is the pain i was still in this something strange that happens you feel you feel electricity in your body you you feel this electric um very foreign and you're just sitting sitting there like going through it and i didn't understand what the electricity was um until probably and this lasted for the electricity that that feeling lasted for a month two months and i finally realized at a certain point what that electricity was and um i was feeling is that's what it was i was actually feeling um without the aid of the drug without the aid of any drugs i mean i had i had refused with dr kipper and nurse debbie and amber at the table before she left for the hotel with her friends i i had refused to continue taking the phenobarbital and the lithium because to me it was just another drug in the way it seemed like it was just another hurdle to get over and i would rather just get it out of my system now and move forward maybe i wouldn't have had the electricity maybe i wouldn't have felt as quickly but um i didn't i didn't want to take phenobarbital and lithium and seroquil and neurontin and all these other things uh and the worst of the two i believed were were the were the uh 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