Ad banner
Ad banner

SearchThisVideo: The uncomfortable truth of the impact of the human population

Copy Help
  • Public/Private: Change the visibility of this video on your My Videos tab
  • Save/Unsave: Save/Unsave this video to/from your Saved Videos tab
  • Copy: Copy this video link to your system clipboard
  • Email: Copy this video link to your default email application
  • Remove: Remove this video from your My Videos or Saved Videos tab

Click to watch


[Music]
i appreciate everybody checking in and
as you quite well say you know i think
that so often
chris people that we we cover over the
the awareness and the hard the hard
truths of what's really going on and i
think that
very often we all think we have a

solution but very often we are not
including the right people
in those conversations and so you know
rather than start with what i
see or what i interpret as the word
conservation
i think we should talk about the
elephant in the room so to speak
and let's talk about what is reality
what are the uncomfortable the truths
every single one of us
on this talk that works in a
conservation field
has got some uncomfortable truths that

we we we kind of brush under the carpet
a lot of the time they they truths that
we don't really want to talk about
we we kind of shy away from but i think
that in a world of almost eight billion
people
the very first truth that we have to
embrace
is that we humans and therefore
we consume we have a wider variety of
diet than any other mammal on the planet
there's nothing that comes close to the
volume that we consume

we utilize every patch of ground that we
possibly can
to grow the food that eight billion
milds need to feed on
and we modify our habitat to such a
degree
that it pushes out absolutely every
other naturally occurring form of life
and modifies the biodiversity of an area
to such a degree that while this photo
shows you where a human lives or where
millions of humans live
we can all agree that this is not even a

remote
there's not one percent of this photo
that represents what it once was
i think one of the most the most
shocking
things that that i've kind of realized
and
and looked at is that 96 of
all mammals on earth are humans in our
livestock
so everything else is just four percent
from elephants to bats
from you know pangolins to rhinos
that's just four percent and we've

managed to
populate the earth with our pets and our
livestock and ourselves to the degree
that we are 96
of all mammals on earth and i think
that's a very sobering thought and so
there's a lot of conversations going
around where we do these things
to make ourselves feel good we talk
constantly about clean energy
well the fact behind a wind farm
is the fact that it took tons and tons

and tons of coal
to generate the steel to build the
windmill in the first place
so while on the face of it we may like
the idea of the clean energy generated
by a windmill
very seldom the uncomfortable truth is
the fact that it took
140 tons of steel to build a windmill
that's serious impact there's a mine
somewhere that's got to supply that
steel
there's a mine somewhere that's got to
supply the coal to melt that steel down

and yes absolutely the energy that may
be created by that windmill
may be pretty clean energy but how we
got to the point of generating that
energy
is everything but clean i hear a comment
a lot that
i'm a vegetarian because it's kinder to
wildlife
well i'm not sure how much wildlife
occurs in what i call
a wildlife holocaust you look at a bean
field
where there's not a single naturally

occurring organism allowed to grow
not a weed not a grasshopper not a bug
not a beetle not a plant not a
not an animal is allowed to grow there
and yet we try and pretend that by
eating vegetarian
we have less impact and so i think that
what i want to talk about a little bit
today
is these realities the reality that
the wildlife has so little space on this
this planet
and the ecosystems are under such
enormous pressure
but we all think it's them that are

providing the pressure whoever to each
of us
individually them is represented by
it's never us that are the pressure but
remember every single one of us on this
talk
every single person that you know has
impact by virtue of the fact that we
want to switch on a light
we use energy energy is generated by
coal by mining by
a number of different things and so i
think that one of the most uncomfortable
truths
is the fact that as humans as society
we have this massive ability to modify

our planet
i like to always throw in there you know
what what people think is the largest
man-made thing on earth
i'll ask that question often in a
presentation to schools or whatever
kids will put up their hands and they'll
go to the eiffel tower or the great wall
of china
or you know whatever it might be the
sobering reality is that the
the largest man-made thing on earth is
the great pacific garbage patch that's
twice the size of texas
a ball of plastic floating in the ocean

twice the size of texas
nobody wants to talk about it for fear
that somebody might
identify them as the owner of it america
doesn't want to talk about it because
they might be tasked with cleaning it up
japan doesn't want to talk about it
because they might be tasked with
cleaning it up so
it's better to just ignore it and how
can we ignore and how
how come it's not common knowledge that
the great pacific garbage patch is the
the largest man-made thing on earth
you know i don't like to harp on on the
negatives but i do think that

all of these facts just give us a really
good sense of reality
so now that we've established reality
and we've head on
talked about some uncomfortable truths
let's talk about
what i translate as the true meaning of
conservation
so to a lot of us conservation might
mean the
anti-poaching teams that remove hundreds
of gin traps or snares or
or catch poachers absolutely that is
conservation
we might be talking about large trans
locations of
key species into new ecosystems or

or freshly recovered ecosystems
absolutely that's conservation
we might talk about initiatives in
different parts of africa
to remove wire snares from the feet of
giraffe by the way giraffe conservation
foundation
removes hundreds such hundreds of such
snares
in in murchison falls national park that
is absolutely conservation
teaching the youth getting out into the
field making sure
that they possibly get exposed to some
conservation ideas and thoughts and and

some conservation
ideals making sure that we expose them
to it
yet none of that completely sums up
this amazing word that we use so easily
called conservation in my mind there's
only
one true explanation for the word
conservation
and that is the conserving of the entire
biodiversity
what is the point of saving a giraffe if
we don't save the habitat
to maintain that giraffe healthy that

habitat has got to have every player in
it
that particular image is is quite
interesting because it's a river line in
mozambique
and the moth is a frog footed moth that
was thought to be extinct and the last
sample
was was collected by by professor alan
gardner in the 70s
and nobody had found a sample since then
he told me if the rainfall gets to this
this stage and if the conditions are
just like this i'd love to come and see
if we can find some

well he found 13 of them in one night
what does that mean to an elephant
we don't know but what we do know is
it's a really
important component of a healthy
ecosystem
and so based on the fact that so many of
you in this
in this group are scientists and people
who understand
really the the depth of conservation
i'll use a word that i'm sure you're
very familiar with
which is plasticity in other words
flexibility
so something like this moth has got

almost zero behavioral plasticity he
needs a very specific plant
very specific conditions probably very
specific location
otherwise he ceases to exist an animal
like an elephant
has got a very wide plasticity he can
eat almost anything he can live in many
many different ecosystems
and so there's lots of places on the
planet where the elephant can live and
seeing a healthy elephant population
does not by any means mean that you've
got healthy conservation

seeing a healthy and diverse insect
population where they've got
almost zero plasticity absolutely speaks
to a healthy ecosystem
and so let's talk a little bit about
modern day conservation it's a very
different conversation to what we were
having
30 years ago and when i first got into
the the guiding and the hunting industry
and
you know i can remember as a young kid
in the early 90s you know being on a
tracking team as we
we de-horned rhinos and matusa donna and
you know i can remember game drives and
mana pools where we saw

half a dozen rhino and one afternoon
drive
those days have gone and one of my most
motivating
factors most motivating things in my
life is the fact that those days have
gone in one lifetime
we've seen this amazing change but we've
also
seen some really dedicated people
dedicating their lives to changing the
way we do conservation
and i really believe that conservation
is in this order
we've got to include the community in
our solutions

we've got to base everything we do on a
foundation of science and facts
not emotion and ideas and most
importantly we must continue the
frontline protection and traditional
conservation
that we truly know so let's go through
these things for a minute and let's
start
start with conservation does the
community benefit from the ecosystem
does the community benefit from your
conservation ideals
do the are you looking at the community
as a participant

or are you looking at them just as a
threat
do you understand the needs of the
community have you spent enough time
sitting under the mango tree to
understand their needs
i will we have a chimpanzee sanctuary
that we support in congo and
a fairly large ngo um donated a bunch of
money to the
the local pygmy groups there and
came in with a bunch of experts to teach
them how to how to
raise guinea pigs in the hopes that the

guinea pigs could replace some of the
protein that they were getting from the
bush meat
harvesting that they were doing in the
in the in the forest in cahushi bieger
national park
well i got to the area one day and you
know the the tribal leaders came and
said we want to have a meeting and for
those of you that live in areas like
this
you know when they come for a meeting
it's either really really good
or really really bad and there's very
little in between
this was an interesting meeting because
they said look we've done everything
these people told us to do
we've bred the guinea pigs we've got
hundreds of them what must we do with

them now
i said no you're supposed to eat them
what but only dirty people would eat
these
no one had ever asked them if they
taught them how to farm guinea pigs
would they actually eat them no one had
asked them that question
and so that time spent under the mango
tree
that time spent with communities that
time
spent understanding their wants and
their needs
understanding their perspective gives us
the ability as
african conservationists to do african

conservation
because there's not a single sustainable
and i use that word very carefully here
not a single sustainable initiative that
is generated around
a first world table without inclusion of
local customs and
and local tribes and perspective and if
you don't include
community beneficiation and their
perspective in your solution
it may last while you there but you know
one of our vets in the congo actually
said something to me that stopped me
dead in my tracks
he's a spanish guy and he's half crazy
and he he's our chimpanzee vet and

i think you've got to be half crazy to
live in the middle of drc and
look after chimpanzees and and do
anesthesias all day and all of that kind
of stuff but
nevertheless he said ivan we have to
teach the congolese
how to look after their own wildlife i
have to teach these vets
because one day i'll be gone and you'll
be gone too and all of the expats will
be gone and all the ngos will be gone
and if we haven't done a good enough job
of teaching the congolese how to do
their congolese conservation

then when we leave the wildlife will
will be destroyed and
i think that that is such a poignant
fact and i think that
very often we are very arrogant in our
outlook and we don't include the
the communities as much as we would like
do the communities understand the value
of their wildlife
and do we the conservationists
understand the value of their
perspective
so what do you see here to me it's the
king of beasts and to many of you in
this room it's the king of beasts
to this guy it's a rite of passage if he

kills that lion he's going to turn into
a man
to this guy it's the greatest threat on
earth
to his livelihood his entire livelihood
hinges on the health of his
his herd of cattle a lion that eats his
kettle
is the demon so for that guy his
perspective is very very different
to the company that owns this vehicle
the lion represents
one of the keystone species that people
will pay a lot of money to come and see

a world without lions is definitely a
world with less tourists
and so really what i'm telling you here
and there's many many other slides i
could have included here
is that if we want to see the lions
return to their former home range if we
want to see
conservation working it takes a team
effort so this is a photo that i think
captures this quite nicely we did a lion
translocation a few years ago
to qatar 11 and mozambique we
translocated 24 lions we'll talk about

that in a little while
um today there's 62 individuals there
but what i like about this photo is the
top hands are the
the hands of the local chief there's
hands
of a scientist in there there's hands of
a veterinary surgeon there's hands
of a pilot and there's hands of one of
the guides from the area
and that lion's paw could not be
supported figuratively
figuratively or physically without
everybody's hands
in that picture you can't support that

lion just with one set of hands it's not
possible you don't have the knowledge
base to do it
so let's get on to our second thing why
is science so important
very very simple like any business in
the world what you measure matters
and it's really been quite fun diving
into this question
why does it matter where this quail
lives this is a blue quail from texas by
the way
why does it matter where it lives where
it walks what it does
i tell you why it matters because the
more we know about this quail the better

job we can do
to create a balanced ecosystem so that
quail can thrive
on the completely other end of the scale
elephant coloring this was an elephant
that we call it in mozambique
to try and see where they moved and how
they moved and when they moved
and what we realized is a contrary to
popular belief and actually
a fair amount of other research the
elephants were just staying in the swamp
in the in the maramir ecosystem they
were just living in the swamp it was
inaccessible to poachers
inaccessible to humans and so they

simply didn't move we were under the
impression that in the
in the dry season they came into the
swamp and in the rainy season they left
the strong
that wasn't the case at all the data
that we've gathered over five years of
having many individuals collared in that
area
has completely changed our elephant
conservation plan and strategy
counting animals observing animals this
particular photo was taken in the
zambezi delta ecosystem which
in 1995 when the current outfitter took

over there
there was less than 20 zebras today
there's several thousand zebras protect
them
and they will come but unless you've
monitored the ecosystem
and monitored the wildlife it's going to
be impossible to replicate that and did
it happen by mistake did it happen
by chance or did it happen because it's
what you planned for
and so whether it's a bison that one is
coloring in this case in the henry
mountains one of the
last remaining wild populations of bison

in america
whether it's tracking lions in in the
zambezi delta
science really really matters probably
more today
than at any other time but it's also a
time of the our lives where we have more
science at our fingertips
we've got incredible compute computers
that can analyze
amazing amounts of data we've got an
amazing advance in
satellite technology and coloring
coloring
technology and you know all of these
things that go into good science and i

think one of the things that all of us
as wildlife enthusiasts very often fall
prey to
is our enthusiasm allows us to look
beyond the facts and the science but if
we do the science
first in order to generate the facts our
conservation will be
infinitely infinitely more effective
so let's talk about traditional
conservation for a minute the
anti-poaching i'm not saying that
community benefit
overshadows anti-poaching they have to
work hand in hand

and there's thousands and thousands of
ranges across africa
in a covert year like this that are
underfunded but nevertheless
without those ranges we don't have the
protective aspect but you've also have
got to have government buy-in so that
the
court sentences etc are also
you know in line with what really makes
sense and so i'm biting off a huge chunk
of stuff here but
these are the three components that have
to be working together
traditional translocations based on
science
and based on on good data and facts this

can be an amazing tool
for recovering an ecosystem or
recovering a population
but if it's not well managed and it's
not based on facts and the community
don't benefit
it can also just be a huge waste of
money because wherever you put those
elephants into
they might either just be killed
straight away they might leave the area
because it's not suitable
and you end up with this giant pot of
money that just got thrown into the wind
and so
before any translocation good science
the big three questions did the species
occur there originally

what eliminated it and has that threat
been mitigated
and thirdly is the ecosystem ready for
us to reintroduce the species
those questions have to be answered from
the perspective of science
this was in southeastern oklahoma where
we went into some bear dens to gather
data from the cubs
to to see their genetics to put
microchips in them
and i have to say going into a a black
bear den with a
a tranquilized fully grown bear it was
an amazing experience for this

not so scrawny anymore little african
african guide
and what you realize is that everything
they do there with bears
is based on data and facts it's also
based on community engagement which
we'll get into in a little while but
what i'm trying to illustrate with these
photos is the length and breadth of this
planet
relies on those three legs of the
conservation stool
the local community whether they're in
in
the middle of oklahoma whether they're
in the middle of mozambique the local
community has to play a role

your decisions have to be done on good
science not hopes and dreams
and you have to have a bunch of
traditional conservation
so let's ask the the burning question
another elephant in the room you might
say
how is all of this paid for well we can
probably boil this down
by starting off with this conversation
there's only five land uses
there's only five ways that we as humans
use our land we either settle it
which completely modifies it because it
turns into places where we've got our

homes and our
you know our cities and our towns we can
use it to feed ourselves which is
completely modified i showed you the
picture earlier of the
the tractor spraying the the soybean
field we can
mine it in order that i can have a
computer and you guys can have a
computer
and that we can every single thing if
you look around your rooms right now
you look around where you are every
single thing that you require to live
at one point was part of this planet and
many of them were extracted as minerals
so we can't point a finger at anybody we

can't say mining is bad
because we all utilize it you know it
always makes me makes me laugh that the
people that are anti-fossil fuel will
actually
jump on a plane and fly to a convention
to do a presentation about it well how
did they get there
the whole plane was made out of fossil
fuel and it's driven by fossil fuels so
we have to accept
this real elephant in the room that we
have impact
then logging is another thing i'm
sitting right here at a wooden desk
that at one point in its life was was a
tree so we've got to accept that there's
logging and so
really those top four absolutely

dramatically modify their environments
at the expense of biodiversity there's
only one
that has the potential to maintain
balance
in an ecosystem if it's done responsibly
and that is tourism and so tourism
there's two types of tourism
so people will say man we stayed at this
absolutely beautiful lodge in uganda
it was eco-friendly there was you know
wonderful outdoor dining the elephants

came right up to the lodge
let's look for a minute what that lodge
is made out of
where those decks were also one-time
trees you know the
the amount of surge that a load lodge
like that generates the amount of water
that they utilize
the physical footprint of that lodge
there's no such thing
as no impact and whether you're at a
giant lodge like this or a small
intimate camp
there's still a footprint there's still
impact
but we have to look and agree that if
it's responsibly done

the ecosystem here is still entirely
better off
than if we turn that into a city or a
soybean field
or a coal mine or a or a steel mill and
so
really when you look at it that's the
photographic tourism angle you've then
got the hunting tourism angle
and i know that this is a hot button for
many many many people and people are
very polarized over it let us just for a
minute
not talk about the hunter or the safari
go from a photographic perspective

let's talk about the money that they
generate and how that has got an
opportunity of upholding an ecosystem
so we have to look at the business model
cold and hard dealing just in fact
not emotion and we come to a few
realizations
and one of them has to be that hunting
is a good conservation model when the
revenue
revenue is used responsibly so this year
tanzania
resettled several million acres of land
why did that happen so a few years ago

some of you will remember that
cecil the lion resulted in the ban of
all import of lion trophies from africa
into the united states
well the united states was a stronghold
of the lion hunting community
and what ended up happening is a lot of
outfitters in
in in tanzania where i might add
they have very very stringent laws
pertaining to the
specific off-take of lions a lot of
those outfitters went broke and they
handed their concessions back to

government
here we are a few years later the the
the local communities no longer get
employed by the outfitters because
they've gone
they no longer get the meat distribution
from the outfitters because they've gone
and so the land sits empty empty and
local political pressure
has pushed the government officials to
turn that land into community settlement
areas
at enormous expense to the wildlife but
that's an uncomfortable truth
that nobody wants to talk about so
instead of a quota of two lions on half

a million acres
now they've all gone to make room for
the cattle and the goats and the and the
cornfields and so
did we really win anything by banning
lion hunting
you may not like a lion hunter you may
say well that's an arrogant fat
texan that's going to come and hunt
lions well conservation sure does need
their conservation dollars
and so unless we can find a viable
alternative
we have to embrace that that is one of
the
one of the land uses in which we have a

hope that the ecosystem
can be maintained now over subscribing
from a hunting and overshooting
perspective will destroy an ecosystem
faster than anything and certain types
of hunting such as canned lions is the
most despicable
disgusting practice you could ever come
across it's got
no impact on conservation it's purely
it it it's it's purely to satisfy
a very warped part of the market and
unfortunately though that that overflows
into the legitimate

responsible use of of hunting as a
conservation tool
but likewise it's no different to going
into the timber vati
and finding that there's you know many
many many lodges and several thousand
people spending their nights there
and millions and millions of liters of
water getting pumped to the surface and
to the water hole in front of the lodge
so people can watch wildlife
you you find the elephants spending more
time there than nature intended the
ecosystems degraded
so again you can be equally impactful
and disrespectful of your ecosystem

if photographic tourism is not done
responsibly
so let's get on to another hot topic
which is effectiveness
how do you know if a conservation entity
is effective
in my mind there's only two things we
should measure
did the efforts of that entity result in
more wildlife and a healthier ecosystem
or not
i'm not interested in how many hairs
there are on a hippo's tail no matter
how many millions of dollars
you spend researching that what i'm

interested in is how can your research
end up with more wildlife and a
healthier ecosystem
so let's talk about one of our partners
a partner that we're very very proud of
at
our own alliance and that is the giraffe
conservation foundation led by julian
fennessy who is a
very blunt and very pragmatic
this is what they've achieved in the
last five years i'm actually sitting in
their offices right now
it's an office that's got about six or
seven full-time employees

it's an office that one of our our board
donated to them so they don't have any
overhead for this office
and this tiny little team through mousse
with african governments
through understanding the local
community's needs and wants
have expanded wild giraffes home range
by 5.2 million acres
actually that's just expanded again this
year so that that's actually out it's
it's 6.2
they've moved 102 giraffe in seven trans
locations
they've got 125 gps units deployed in

nine countries so they measure over
thirty five
thousand miles of data every year
two and a half thousand children per
year exposed to conservation just in
namibia and that's
excluding the other projects and in
murchison falls
alone they've removed over a hundred
over a thousand snares
just this year 150 of which have come
from
live animals that have now given a
second chance so
just that little report right there this

is not a five page document but every
line of it
could be scientifically backed up if
somebody needed
that tells me that they are effective
because the bottom line of all of that
is more wildlife and healthier
ecosystems now let's look at the zambezi
delta ecosystem
a lot of people want to look past it
because one of the main
pursuits from a tourism perspective
there is hunting
they hunt over a thousand animals a year
in that area but in the last five years
with the introduction of lions we've

expanded the wild lions home range by 2
million acres
we've removed thousands and thousands of
snares and traps
we've reduced the poaching within our
area by 92 percent
we've got two and a half thousand
community members that benefit from
conservation
by benefit what i mean is clinics and
schools and we have a plowing initiative
they used to all do slash and burn
agriculture
we we bought some tractors we put them
in areas that are already
completely denuded and now we plow for
them

and we provide fertilizer and seed and
so for every acre we plow
that saves an acre of forest that
they're not slashing and burning and so
over the last three years we've
recovered about 500 hectares
of land just by stopping them doing
slash and burn then it goes further
by understanding the community wants and
needs we've offered them some incentives
to move
if they choose to so we haven't told
them they have to move
and we've moved about 50 families and
got back
about 10 000 hectares of land that used

to have villages on and now are empty
and in return for moving we plow for
them we distribute meat to them from the
hunting operations
they've got a clinic and a school their
lives are better and the wildlife is
better off
last year we distributed 66 tons of meat
to the different communities so my next
burning question
so sorry going back to that that all
sums up that absolutely they are
effective
what we have done there absolutely has
resulted in more wildlife

and a healthier ecosystem and so the
research component on the ground has
found things
like the frog foot moth and a species of
butterfly that may never have been
described again to science we've just
discovered a subspecies of chameleon
that possibly has never been described
to science and so all of these exciting
things could not happen
if the zambezi delta was a rice paddy
being used to feed people which is
what's happening on the northern banks
of the zambia so we have to prove
that the wildlife is more valuable as a

commodity
than the rice because the moment the
rice becomes more valuable
one way or another politics will win and
this will just be another set of acreage
that's under crops
to feed the 8 billion people on earth
and not under wildlife
so the next burning question the next
hard question is why does this matter
to me it matters because of the future
generation
it matters because of the shame that we
will have

if ever we have to if ever i have to
talk to my grandchild
and explain to them what a giraffe used
to be or if i had to take them to the
zoo to see a zebra
and so the next generation those are
actually my kids in the picture
and they are some of the luckiest kids
on the planet they've seen giraffe
translocations they've
held elephants trunks as we're moving
them they've seen rhino darting and d
hornings they've seen the realities of
poaching they've seen the realities of
coloring and good science
and i don't know if they're going to be

interested in wildlife in the in their
future
but what i do know is that they deserve
to have the choice
and they won't have the choice if our
generation
doesn't do a good enough job of not only
protecting the wildlife
but educating our youth to take the
torch and i'm not talking about youth
like my kids
i'm talking about youth like the youth
of the third world that are tomorrow's
conservationists and they are tomorrow's
community
and so we truly do owe it to our future
generations

to ensure that there are healthy
ecosystems with abundant wildlife
it's going to become harder and harder
and harder and what i always say to
people
as as a concluding slide people always
say well that's all great ivan
but how do we help and i always say
that's also a three-legged stool
you can use social media not to
make rash decisions based on one moment
in time for a photo
that has been carefully chosen to elicit
a certain response

but use social media to your advantage
to post good facts
and science and dispel some of the myths
that
are the uncomfortable truths that
hunting is bad or hunting should be
stopped
you know i i have less impact because i
i eat vegetarian we like to have
windmills because there's no impact to
generate our power
those are all not really uncomfortable
truths those are just simply lies and we
can use
social media for the first time ever in
history

everybody's got a voice and we should
use that we can use our dollars
but we can't just send our dollars into
the black hole
that's representative of so many of the
ineffective ngos that are just big
marketing machines which use your money
to generate a fundraiser to raise more
money like yours to generate a
fundraiser
and every now and again there's a token
amount that goes to the front line
with which we do a little bit of
conservation and they use those
very watered down winds but most
importantly we can engage our youth we

can fascinate them
not with their screens but by the colors
on a on a grasshopper's wing
or the beauty of a sunset and not how
many likes and shares they get on a
particular
on a particular post that they might
have put onto social media for their
virtual friends to see their virtual
life
folks that's all i have that's all i
know
and i think if i get off my screen share
we've still got a little bit of time for
some
questions and answers and what's
probably going to be a little bit of a
lively conversation with any luck

hi everybody thank you very much for
that
talk i absolutely agree with you on many
of the points
although some of them are quite complex
and
there's a lot of issues that go into uh
the various points that you made but
there's two other things that really
concern me that
very often people don't want to talk
about first of all is

the growth of the population nobody
wants to talk about
things like how do you manage that you
know if you look at what china did
they made sure that you know all the
chinese citizens
only had one child each which has
created a bit of a problem later on in
life
so they reversed that and now they allow
two children
so the population growth is a big issue
for me which i don't know what the
answer is
but that has an enormous

impact on the the whole ecosystem the
environment etc
and the second thing is um
corruption um and
you know if you look at if you read many
of the books about
conservation you learn a lot about the
politics of conservation and all the
corruption that goes into it so for me
those are two major
issues which have a major impact

on the successes that we hope to achieve
in in conservation thanks very much
thanks to ivan yes i agree with you
absolutely and entirely which is why i
talk about the 8 billion
people on earth and you know we've got
this weird thing as humans
to think that it doesn't apply to us we
don't want
congolese to put a village in the
rainforest but we quite
fine with building a new estate on the
edge of white river
so that we can have an individual one

hectare plot so it doesn't apply to us
it only applies to everyone else um most
of the people on this chat have got
children
and yet we are conservationists and we
understand this
population growth but i think that i
agree with you completely
i think that the humanitarian aid that
flows into africa
absolutely will need to have a a
birth control component if we are to
save africa there's no question
there's there's absolutely no question

um
but i also think that even as
individuals we need to be less wasteful
of our resources because
as fast as the populations are growing
i'll take mozambique as an example
we have two and a half thousand people
in our community
and less than 200 of them are fully
mature adults over 40 years old
that right there tells you our problem's
not going to get more
it's going to get less so i mean sorry
our problems are not going to get less
they're going to get more and so i think

that you're exactly right
but i also think that corruption is
equally bad
and as conservationists it's our duty to
make sure that our mechanisms
understand how to deploy the money
effectively
because we operate in congo and i can
assure you corruption is under every
single stone in congo
we also operate in mozambique and
corruption is under every stone there
but where there's a will there's a way
and there's certain elements
of community engagement and the way you

engage community
that can absolutely work that that that
you can exclude corruption but i agree
with you
corruption and and population growth are
two
massive things that nobody wants to talk
about because we all politically correct
one of my top donors has got nine kids
what do you think would happen if i said
man you part of the problems here you've
got nine kids
i mean they're going to donate to
somebody else and so
it's the elephant in the room is the
fact that
the very liberal outset where everybody

is free to do what they want that that's
actually not okay
at our school in mozambique we have a
creche for the
for the kids that belong to the 14 year
old girls that are at the school
and absolutely we do include family
planning et cetera but the government
won't allow us to make that formal
the government wants there to be more
people because children are wealth
and so we deal with that as well and
that's not really corruption
it's it's planned population growth by

these african governments
thank you owen um just want to check if
there are other hands you can raise it
electronically by going into
participants or you can just raise your
hand
and i'll see if i can pick it up uh the
technical team will help me with that
apparently there's a question in chat
uh let me just have a look there i think
there's a question by sir bill reid
miller
i'm told i'm not picking it up right now

if one of the team can just forward it
to me on whatsapp i'll appreciate
anybody else who would like to raise a
hand kyle hinds
kyle hind has raised the hand uh chris
okay if you can unmute him i'm just
trying to pick him up
well are you ready to ask a question
yes yeah i hope you hope you guys can
all hear me
um thanks so i missed most of your talk
ivan
but i caught the last end which was
pretty good um

i'm from zimbabwe i actually worked at
bundy camp which i think
you had a bit of a
handle maybe for a little bit a while
back
and i was just wondering um i don't know
if you spoke about zimbabwe but
i realized like i follow you on social
media and you don't do that much work in
zimbabwe anymore and i was wondering if
like what's your thoughts of wildlife
and why are we going forward and
yeah where you think if it's a positive
outlook or if you're a little worried
about it things
yeah just general comments

thanks guys great great question i
appreciate the the input there
so zimbabwe is a very very tough tough
country to operate conservation in right
now
it's a country where even the even the
land owners
and i'm talking about
conservation-minded landowners
are just not managing with covert and
all of that stuff but
if i tell you that you know zimbabwe of
all of the countries we operate in
is one of the toughest even just to get

research permits
to support research um we were just in
there doing an assessment of chiserera
and an assessment of sarpy and an
assessment of
of of um mavuridona
and you know the fact that you know
mining concessions are being given out
in national parks
the fact that um you know you're not
allowed to say that a population
has declined by poaching um nobody would
say that we'd get into a place like
matusadona
and we flew over the area the population
of the elephant there is less than 300

elephant
when i was a youngster operating in
matusadhana there was over three
thousand um
and you say is it poaching no no it's
not poaching um
it's drought and it's other things and
so i think that
the hope lies in the hands of you guys
the zimbabweans that are
right there you absolutely right we we
did kind of start the vundu camp
um lodge as you see it today many many
years ago
and um almost 20 years ago now and you
know what
what is very interesting is how the

country has changed and so
what you've got to start with is driven
and motivated individuals who are
prepared to
sit there and educate the locals so the
person in charge of sapi right now this
minute
is a person who's had a a management
course
at the southern african wildlife college
his name is francis i forget his
his other name francis chidza i think
i'm very very good guy he's an amazing
guy
but he's in charge of sapi which is 300

000
hectares and he's got a land cruiser
and four game rangers he has no support
great planes were supposed to go in
there and give all of the anti-poaching
and they never did that
and so where is everybody holding the
feet to the fire of the people making
these conservation promises
and unfortunately that's on the
shoulders of your average zimbabwean who
is busy in survival mode
and doesn't have the time to to do that
and so yeah i don't wanna i don't wanna
sound

um you know to to you know doom and
gloom
but i think it's gotta start with the
people in that country
they've gotta want it badly enough to to
step up and do something i think there's
amazing hope at the moment
with people like park recovery fund with
with with african parks stepping into
matusadona and possibly mana pools um
but i also think that the level of
corruption is off the chart right now
and it's going to take government
stability for that to come right
and on the shoulders of that one can

start doing some serious conservation
you know
okay yeah thanks for the insights thanks
for that thanks kyle
i'm thinking uh there's a question that
came uh
on set ivan from uh sybil ritmeller she
just wanted to know if the hunting in
industry was also as badly affected
in terms of uh corona and the
downturn of tourism like in the rest of
the industry
i think the tourism industry

for the first time ever has got one
thing completely in common
you know kruger national park has a
million people a year
and for three months they didn't have a
single person not a single lodge
not a single camp not a single day
visitor had a single client
um i've been doing a giraffe survey
across south africa i visited 47 ranches
during lockdown
and we had a move permit to go and do
biopsy samples
and there were guys that that hadn't had
a single tourist the whole year

single hunter the whole year and so
absolutely it's incredibly badly
affected
um it's a year we can't get back it's a
year we can't afford
to have no anti-poaching and so on you
know we we
we looked at the zambezi delta um books
with zambezi delta safaris and
and you know they they've they have a
pass-through of
of a huge amount of money and a lot of
that ends up supporting helicopters and
anti-poaching and community development
stuff and
we've just had to cut back on that
because there simply isn't the money so

you know just an area like that um we've
had four clients
instead of about 130 um from a hunting
perspective and those were guys that
came in early season before lockdown
but there's no way for people to get
here and there's no way that they're
going to risk coming here and having a
two week quarantine on their way home so
i think the photographic and the hunting
on exactly the same boat
um but i think the saddest thing that we
saw in many of the privately owned
ranchers in south africa that we visited
doing the giraffe stuff was you saw

people
in kzn you know with a giant game ranch
and they've carved out
50 hectares for oranges and you see
people with game ranchers around
nelsprate
with with game farms around nelspraten
they've carved out 20 hectares from
academias or whatever
so what is where's those 20 hectares
come from
that's come from wildlife ecosystem and
so
people are doing what it takes to
survive and very often
in the tourism industry it's at the
expense of the wildlife unfortunately

thanks ivan um it is a disaster for
everybody in this industry at the moment
um first we have lorraine chittock
thank you awesome thanks for coming in
thanks for helping
if you can unmute her lorraine
hello i'm i'm one of the people who came
late unfortunately um i it kept getting
bumping me off um but i'm gonna be

looking at the youtube because it's a
really
exciting talk and i loved how much you
covered
all the hypocrisy that happens um
really helped balance it out um i would
like
to know in in your hunting reserves or
or
in your area i know you addressed this a
little bit what people can do
in other countries but if for example
someone came to

your hunting concession area and wanted
to help
what would you have them do or does that
ever happen or do you allow it
so so you're talking from a volunteer
perspective
yes well i'm i'm looking for ways
that that people can help people who are
not
scientists or you know
anything like that just the average
person who loves
wildlife so again one of the things that

um
rod and i laugh about the other day and
chris kind of pointed out is
i'm fairly blunt and i get i get a lot
of a lot of messages
literally on a daily basis can we come
and help can we come and help
remember we're in africa where there's
the cheapest labor on the planet
if we use volunteer labor that's one
less
person from a community that can benefit
and then we've got liabilities we've got
to now have
fairly expensive insurance because

volunteers are all great until one of
them stubs their toe
and then the other side of it i don't
mean to sound cynical but the other side
of it is a volunteer is not long term
and so they'll arrive they may or may
not be good at what you want them to
help with
you take time to train them and as soon
as they get proficient they leave again
and so there's a big aspect of
conservation that they call voluntourism
where volunteers pay actually fairly
significant sums of money
to come and volunteer and there's

there's an organization
in south africa that that takes
volunteers and they do citizen science
with them
which is actually very very worthwhile
because these people have
they've got a vehicle that is supported
by these volunteers and the volunteers
go out in the vehicle with a guide every
day
and they go and they observe cheetah and
monitor lions and
do a lot of monitoring stuff that
doesn't take a lot of skill
and they pay to participate in that and
their dollars
uphold the conservation model within the

area that they are participating but
that is very definitely voluntourism
versus volunteerism
and so um so that the whenever people
say how can we help
i say help us spread awareness or get
together a little group of people i mean
you know i don't care if you sponsor a
free running hound in the kruger
national park that's catching poachers
and it takes 20 people to rise raise the
annual salary of that
that that that really does work a lot
better

than than flying over and
helping if you will um and it's not what
people want people want to come and get
their hands dirty and there are those
opportunities
where there's several sanctuaries
there's several areas
we don't take volunteers purely because
of the liability
and we would spend more money on the
insurances than we would on
that we could get back from the
volunteers because people don't want to
pay to volunteer
they just want to volunteer that said we
do take on quite a few
university volunteers which are very

often gap year students
that have you know got a one degree in
biology and have taken a little bit of
time off
before they go to a different degree and
stuff like that and they are very very
useful with
managing data and because they already
have a bit of scientific background and
they truly are useful to us
when we arrive but we're very very
careful about
offering these positions to those people
because if they arrive and they've
signed up for six months
and they no good um we've got them for

six months you know
thanks ivan i just want to check lorena
you
uh you heard the answer you okay i did
and i completely understand i have a
i do work away at my cabin and i have
the same complaint i get people coming
and saying oh yeah i can help i can stay
there for free
but they don't know anything um the
reason i'm asking the question is i'm
doing a
film that i'm hoping it's gonna raise

funds for
motorcycles for rangers in uganda
but i also realize that not everyone
is going to have money to be able to
fund
things you know especially in these
times so i'm just i'm looking for
anything that i can like
share with the audience my audience that
that they can do also um
and yeah and i know there's petitions

that people can sign and
um social media posts but
i'm always looking for anything else
right lorraine i think we would have to
tech to have a talk one night
which is supposed to be a practical talk
where people share
ideas of how to do what to do i would
love to
you you gotta initiate it send me an
email i'll answer i'll respond to you in
a week's time putting you back on
youtube
anything rod you wanted to say about

this i know you also have some
volunteers there putting
you right if you can just unmute and
then after that um
it is shirley anglebrass question
okay sorry chris we do get volunteers
yeah but
we've done that yes we because we work
with a specific requirement we take
volunteers who come for a six-month
period
so it's not volunteerism it's volunteers
and that they're
people with proper qualifications with

uh for our needs which is is animal
husbandry
to vet vets or vet nurses or
people to to
[Music]
uh
something everybody wants to come and
stay for free and for you to pay their
holiday so you got to be careful of all
the volunteer requests you get and we

get
literally hundreds a year so
we do we just you have to you have to if
we if we say we're looking for a
volunteer
to look at new england project we will
get we'll get a hundred requests
next week um and you've got to be very
careful
like like ivan says you know these are
um yeah you're stuck with people and we

okay seems to be lost the line with rod
rod will probably come back in shirley
englebrecht i'm unmuting you it seems
like you had a question please surely
clicked on mute yeah you're on um hi i'd
just
like to find out how come conservation
has never really ever been brought up
in any schools anywhere in the world
they never talk about our animals or
conservation
or anything to do with our animals and

trying to save our planet
thanks shirley over to ivan ivan i will
also comment
over to you surely that's a co that's a
very valid point and it's actually
something we've been working on
i i have a person in the states that
teaches
about 40 000 teachers every school
summer in the states now
in the state of texas and and everywhere
else in the states there's no mandatory
conservation teaching
at all and i think it speaks to this

great divide between
technology and screens and whatever the
gap is getting bigger and bigger between
humans and wildlife in fact
i often drive along in town and i look
around i say
i wonder if there's anybody that i can
see right now in this traffic jam
that actually understands what a
pangolin needs or
understands the value of a rhino horn or
really cares that
you know the last northern white rhino
slipped away um
you know we we are more worried about

the battery life of our iphone
than we are you know the the northern
white rhino is not a it's not a frog
from the rainforest that nobody knows
about
it's an animal the size of your dining
room table how can we be more worried
about the
the battery life of our iphones with all
of the technology in the world
we are way more excited about the new
iphone as a society
than we are about the dwindling
population of northern white rhinos and
i don't know the answer surely i wish it
was different
but one of the things that we are

absolutely working on
is i've got my kids leading the lessons
they 15 minute lessons
which include a seven minute short film
followed by
a q a of the most commonly asked
questions there's about 20 with each
film
and the correct answer for them and a
lot of them have got questions to do
with
you know just understanding where your
food comes from understanding where
you know what the impact is of switching
on a light
um just things like that that we are
generally very bad at

as society but you're absolutely right
even in south africa
there's a fair amount of conservation
taught in my kids school
but it's also a school with a huge
amount of
bush people as as as parents in that
school and so
none of it's curricular it's all
volunteer but you know there's nothing
in the curriculum you're absolutely
right and i don't know why that is
thanks ivan just from my side briefly um
the lca is
together with the sabine africa
charities one of the reasons why i'm in

germany at the moment we are piloting in
five african countries
um uh ways to enrich the school
curricula
uh with conservation related punting
and actually create this creative
understanding amongst the
urban youth about the impact of
our behavior on nature we're not telling
them they have to do it like this or
that
we provide the information like you said
about science and then people can make a
decision

um we will probably pilot in six
countries by the end of the meeting and
end of next week
um it's been running for two three years
our patron sevina plata simply said
the um the only way we can really really
change
the situation is through knowledge and
that's got to come through the
curriculum of schools
you cannot do just informally and in a
haphazard way anymore
so we're working on that big time and
we're also starting with new
informative programs all over africa
more about that later but just say

totally in agreement you cannot just
um think that it's going to happen
through
the few people who very often work in
peripheral areas
85 of the african youth is are based in
urban areas
and the only way you're going to connect
them is through curricula that is
activity
based but that's just the comment okay
real um luan you have had your hand up
for quite a while

please unmute uh
thanks chris can you hear me clear thank
you
ivan thanks very much for your talk i
think the most effective
uh image for me was that lion pool with
all the human
uh hands around supporting it i think
that um you know it speaks of
you know the minimizing the human
footprint on
on the planet and i think what was nice
about your
your talk was the the you know balancing
the just balancing
people and wildlife issues conservation

development um
uh hunting ecotourism but the question i
just
interesting to see what your response is
with regards to
um you know moving forward i mean people
that you're talking about
um you speak about biodiversity and
biodiversity loss and how
the impact that humans are having their
human footprint is
really extensive and and then the
question is how to minimize it and i
suppose education is is is the key but
from a
from a policy point of view would you
have any you know um

ideas about at the moment from a
conservation policy point of view people
are
those cbd biodiversity targets so this
convention for biological diversity was
meant to
um that's meant to protect biodiversity
conservation and
it's an international convention as you
know like societies and
so cbd and it's failed miserably in the
last there's uh
the twin it was a 2020 targets that was
a a meeting ten years ago and
and i'm sure a lot of the people

audience know that the
the targets have failed so so now um
humanity's sitting in a position where
there's rampant human population growth
the pressures are are
immense and as you say you don't want a
doom gloom perspective but
from a positive point of view from a
it's a win-win point of view
uh have you got any suggestions ivan so
how you
how we can turn it around with a focus
on
sustainable development and uh and and
you know maybe moving away from

biodiversity like a preservation
perspective how do we you know
address human population growth uh
sustainable development poverty
education and you know there's these
huge issues but
you know i'm just trying to what came up
for me and your talk also was you know
custodianship and stewardship and what
chris is saying about education i agree
is key you want to
translate the importance of the nature
and mainstream it into society but
you know how does humanity move forward

now
going forward i mean there's all these
ambitious schemes you know there's this
campaign
2030 this vice foundation there's uh
even more ambitious plans about
protected area
so i won't go on but i'd like to just
see what your response is with regards
to how do you balance now
conservation development realistically
um
and are there any pointers if from say a
policy point of view i mean
for people who have got influence um you

know
in these decisions have you got any
response
i'm gonna answer with two two examples
rail and
one of them is giraffe conservation
foundation
they don't take a single step into a
single country
until they've got buy-in from the
national government so
step one is to approach the angola
president
and the the highest minister of
environment and tourism or whatever it's
called in these particular countries

and get their buy-in to allow us to
build out a giraffe conservation action
plan
then they come in as partners where it
is their giraffe and their action plan
that we then support
and then we go in and within that action
plan we've asked them for
certain uh laws to do with education
certain laws to do with trance locations
or habitat recovery or
you know monitoring and work permits for
scientists et cetera et cetera et cetera

and
it can take many forms given that we've
got we've got mou's with everyone from
niger to kenya tanzania zimbabwe angola
whatever
and so that is the start point
and building a blueprint with your first
one
that you can now take to the second
government and say hey
this is what we signed with angola we
now want to help you with your giraffe
and in angola we've done this so
therefore we want to do that with you
and if you really look at adrell
something that gives me amazing hope

amazing hope and it's not just that he's
a close friend of mine
and and we talk a lot but is what
under the leadership of peter fernhead
african parks is actually achieving
and so they also do not set one foot
into a single ecosystem
until they've got government buy-in into
their mou
and they go in there and they negotiate
the terms of their mou
and then they go in and they assess and
then
after that if the assessment comes out

where they want it to be and where they
think it should be
they will then engage and take over a
park and we can't
argue that that is at this point in time
the most violently successful group that
there is
there's way more money flowing through
some of the big
you know
ngos there's way more money flowing
through them but they can't
show you a single acre let me just they
can't show you a single acre

and they can't show you a single species
that has exploded like you can see in
african parks or qatar 11 or
with any of the giraffe conservation
foundation landscapes that we we
operated and so i think that
what the answer to your question is is
the fact that all of these
giant meetings fail is for one major
missing component
how many tribal chiefs and leaders are
sitting at that table
it's all of the powers that be whatever

that means and all the important
conservation minds
gathered around a table very often
without taking into consideration
what's actually going to work at a
government level and a policy
level and even on a smaller scale so so
i'll give you a really good example
and this the hit the the success of our
lion move hinged on this one point
so we went to the local chief and we
said to him
okay we're going to bring these lions

and we spoke to every single community
member of our prelude to introducing the
lions in qatar 11
was about two years of research with it
with a team of of researchers
and the chief said well there's one
problem
the spirit lions and by the way my
brother is one
are going to kill the lions when they
arrive they're going to fight with him
and kill them
so we dived into our history books and
we realized that livingston even spoke
about that area and the spirit lions and
this and that and the next thing
so we went back a few days later we said

okay so what must we do
he said no you must get all of the witch
doctors from the area
and we must have this big meeting and
very predictably you must bring a
truckload of beer and a truckload of
meat
and we will have a celebration and we'll
ask what the spirits think
well we got the blessing of the spirits
and we never had another hitch but
every year we have to get those guys
together now the scientific brain will
poo poo that
but at the expense of that entire
project and i think that that is a
perfect example of taking into account

the perspective of the local people in
the area that you want to operate
and building that into your action plan
for conservation so
i think that's where african parks does
it differently i think that's where gcf
does it differently
and i really think that is one of the
defining components of the plan
is these these conservation communities
that take into consideration local
people
and local governments just seem to be
the ones that are successful

thanks ivan um cheryl ogilvy and then
after
esther appleyard please cheryl i'm
meeting you
hi chris thank you and alvin thank you
very much for that talk
um yeah i agree with you 100
education is crucial and i personally
think south africa has lost the plot
um it can be all of this can be
interlinked into every single learning
area
um it must be the whole school approach

as well and
i think we need to rewrite the syllaba
we don't have to have the basics that's
happening right now
we can link in everything and we can
link it into environmental education and
we can actually change perspectives
it should start education should start
at an early age
and that's been proven um and to get
down to the crux where we
starting to try or trying to educate
adults
like the izan dunas sangomas and so on

they already got their mindset so it's
very difficult to change those
perspectives and change those attitudes
and behavior so we have to start at a
younger age and i wish
south africa can start implementing
environmental education full-time
into the school syllabus and it mustn't
just be indoors it's got to be
outdoors and that's where our children
get the most exposure
they're going to learn hands-on so it's
all to do with the three h's
heads hands and hot and our family
believe

thank you ivan we have to start
education
thank you it's just a point sorry thank
you
got that thank you ivan any comment
yeah thank you cheryl i think that that
that's a really really well received
point i think what and again
apologies for the blundness but i think
the two greatest threats to our wildlife
is the exploding human population and
the thought that someone else will save
it
so when you say we who's we is that you

leading the charge or is it you hoping
that we the community someone's going to
do it
um cheryl i know that you're trying to
lead your charts and so we all do
but it's very true ivan who's leading a
child so we're hoping somebody else is
going to do it
and i think that what what has to happen
is if we were to come together as a
community
and agree on something which i know is
something that scientists and
conservationists could never do but

let's just dream for a minute and
imagine we could agree um
if we could agree that we need to
petition and support
the building of a curriculum that
includes conservation just in south
africa as one country
so you've got one prime minister of one
african country i'm talking about rwanda
that decided to outlaw rubbish and
in two years rwanda became a country
that is so clean you get a fine for
throwing a cigarette stompy down

and you're not allowed to come into the
country with a plastic packet
and so these things are possible they
absolutely are possible
but it takes a well-organized army
and a very pragmatic approach to achieve
them
thanks ivan esther appleyard please
thanks chris ivan fantastic
talk thank you um i
actually studied environmental
management which is

management of people's activities rather
than the environment
but something that i wanted to bring up
was
and maybe it's being dealt with i know
certainly in other african countries
like kenya
we have some of the best legislation in
the world
in terms of biodiversity in terms of
ecosystems
how do we get it managed and how do we
get it
implemented so that it actually means

something
because on paper that actually means
nothing
and i don't know if you have any
thoughts about that in terms of the rest
of africa and how it's done
then another thing i wanted to bring up
was just discuss
and i know rail you mentioned
the sdgs but also in that
and in our biodiversity legislation
there is also alien vegetation and have

you had any dealings with that up in
africa
as well in terms of
part of wild wilderness and ecosystems
is also managing that alien vegetation
and have we dealt with that if you have
thanks thanks sister ivan
yeah esther those are some some massive
topics there um
i haven't had any direct dealings on on
invasive species from a plant
perspective
what i will tell you is one of the

hardest things that
that i've ever seen or or attempted
is to bring conservation awareness to so
our sanctuary at luwero primates
uh is is on the edge of gahuzi bieger
national park
and as you drive there you drive through
a couple of hours of community
where literally if a whole village sees
10 us dollars a month passing through
you've got guys on the side of the road
with a hammer breaking rocks to make

gravel
for a dollar a day and so now going and
talking to those people about
about biodiversity and and and
invasive species and policy and whatever
it's deaf ears because there's there's a
great quote i didn't i didn't know how
long
how long i would have but i wish i'd
included the slide
appreciating the beauty of wildlife is a
concept
that can only be understood by someone
with a full belly
and i really firmly believe that and all

of us
when times get really really tight all
we think about
is our most primal needs which is food
and shelter and somewhere safe
and we'll drop everything to protect our
kids
we'll drop everything to put food in our
belly and i think that
that taking into consideration the
communities that one is dealing with
we have to be able to prove to them how
their life is better
with biodiversity how their bellies are
fuller
with biodiversity how their wallets

benefit
from biodiversity if we don't or if we
aren't able to achieve that
then then we can't manage and that's why
i say that the hunting component which
turns a lot of people off
the the meat generated from that is it's
it's a currency
it absolutely is a conservation currency
is this meat that's generated the money
that's
that's generated by it is absolutely
something that when well used can
support a conservation initiative and
one of the things that it's slightly
diverse of your question

but one of the things that i think
really gets under my skin when we talk
about policy
and these things because there's nothing
sexy about
about moving an invasive plant there's
everything sexy about coloring in
elephants so
everybody wants to do their elephant
coloring and support it
and and finance that no one wants to
finance the removing of lantana from
from kwazulu natal so really when you
look at it
you'll get these giant ngos or bodies of
people

that have got enormous wealth but by
virtue of the fact that they're wealthy
they'll say look we'll give you this
money
but you are not allowed to ever engage
in hunting on this property
or you are not allowed to allow your
rangers we'll support your rangers but
they can't be armed or
whatever so now suddenly you've got
these massive conservation groups
that are getting dictated to by wealthy
people in the first world who don't
understand the problem
but by our hunger for their money we end
up bending to their wants and needs

and that's a very very destructive cycle
as well
thanks even ivan i think lorraine got
left
there was uh in the chat there was just
a comment that she should check out
what the south african honorary rangers
are doing
voluntary but we'll stay in touch with
her
also there was a question and chat about
the
success you had eva i think after
questions you are curious to know

about the film and the value and
does it generate income i don't know if
i saw that you tried to answer in that
want to say something about that either
you on mute ivan please
sorry the mutant the unmute gets me i'm
not very smart um
so so absolutely carter's wall where
what we did for those of you who've seen
an
episode is we go into an area

i pose as a wildlife investigator
we go and we identify a problem we look
at it from the perspective of the
wildlife the perspective of the
community and the perspective of a
solution or a conservationist
and then we go down this trail of
discovery of what works and doesn't work
and it's
it's it's very well shot they one hour
long episodes and they're very very
compelling
they generated actually so much money
that
we started the foundation on the back of

that and the reason we started our own
foundation and and
it's this is this is going to be
interesting is i started sending the
money through third-party groups but it
got to be quite a lot of money
and all of a sudden they wanted to
divert it to stuff that they thought was
important
not necessarily stuff that we thought
was important and then they wanted to
start earning commissions from it and
and this and that and the next thing
so i thought well as much as the world
does absolutely not need another
not-for-profit
let's start one but it has to be based

around tangible returns on our
conservation investment
so i put together a board of people who
are all business people
not one of them is a volunteer they they
volunteer their time
but they are all business people with a
role to play
in the development and as you know to
build a sustainable business in the
current economic
you know the last 20 years that takes a
determined individual so we
pride ourselves in running it as a
business we don't have
anybody that's on our staff that has not

paid the normal amount that they would
get in the non-conservation world
and we are 100 all about results
tangible results so expanding ecosystems
doing aerial counts so that we can
measure our impacts and so
a good tangible result is one of the
things we did was bring the free running
homes from texas
and put them in kruger national park
well when we put those hounds in place
um they were losing a rhino every eight
hours now
they are not the only component that has
led to the drop but today

they're losing a rhino every two weeks
and we've caught
well close to 200 people in the park and
confiscated almost 100 firearms
and it's had this massive impact and so
if i showed you the return on that
investment
of you know 250 000 to bring those
hounds into the country
and then the the 200 odd thousand
dollars it takes to maintain the kennels
every year
we've got a massive massive impact
from that and it's measurable and it's

it's you can back up what the
measurements say
the lion research the you know we we
were just talking about parrots earlier
our sanctuary in congo takes parrots
from the illegal trade
and we recove we we recover them
and then release them back into the into
the forest so they're these tangible
results but
absolutely all of the money that goes to
that and we're a small organization we
we deploy about two million dollars a
year
um but all of that comes as a result of

people's response to media that we
generate and so
not wanting that to stop that's why we
started the conservation film company
which is based in cape town
where we don't film wildlife and we
don't film people we film conservation
so we
we build short films around around real
conservation that's actually happening
and real wildlife problems that are
actually
on people's radar and getting solved
with a view to building
building recognition so right now what
i'm doing in namibia is we're getting a
bunch of interview pieces for giraffe

conservation foundation
and we're doing a one-hour long
documentary all about how they
through engaging communities have been
so successful
and that's going to cgtn china global
television network
it'll air through 800 million homes in
110 countries
and it's got all the right messaging
around it and what you realize is that
step one what you produce has to be
entertainment first otherwise nobody
will watch it
there's got to be high stakes so it's
got to be exciting and then you can

build in the education component
into that if you don't set out to
entertain them first
you're just another talking head and no
matter how passionate you are after a
minute or two people
are done and they check out so yeah it's
certainly
the films feed the foundation which feed
the initiatives which feed the film so
it's a great little ecosystem
thanks iran just want to say that uh
brian
how uh chabert raised his hand but
before we uh
unmute him